difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors

Use live data to check for signal if the sensor wiring is difficult to access. All combined to achieve 29 m.p.g. please help all stuff is breaking this wknd !! Picture Information. Available for Windows, Mac, and Linux, the next evolution of our diagnostic scope software is now available. By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. Common sources of contamination include an excessively rich fuel mixture condition or oil blow-by in an older engine and engine coolant being burnt in the combustion chamber as a result of an engine gasket leak. Minimize the help page. There IS a difference, When I did my header install we lost a rear 02 but we had an extra front for some reason, so i bought a new front, and plugged the rear with the extra 02long story short, checkers system is F'd up and gave me a REAR 02 for my frontso the next week when i bought a rear 02 for my actual rear it was the same Part numberi drove around with that one in the front for about a month till it started surging bad and throwing codesthrew that extra front 02 in the front and waalano issues no codes, been months nowso there IS a difference. The catalytic converter maintains the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio of 14.7:1. Bringing the BMW community together. I remember being taught differently in my first Bosch school BSC 1. Form: Not sure if the sensor itself is any different but I know the connectors are (at least on the 04's) 2004 Yellow M6, 1 of 1014 The regular software and driver updates are a real bonus. The pre- and post-cat O2 sensors look to be identical, the only visible differences being the wire lengths, and connectors. Rough engine idle or misfiring: since the oxygen sensor output help control engine timing, combustion intervals and air to fuel ration, a faulty sensor can cause the vehicle to run rough. Before giving out ANY information regarding cars, or any other items for sale, please satisfy yourself that any potential purchaser is bona fide. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. 06-29-2005 08:28 PM. The "pre-cat sensor" regulates fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the catalytic converter. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". If you're electrically competent. The best way to do this is to look at real-time data using a diagnostic tool. This is called open loop mode. I cant help with the torque readings (or the tech builtin above but I'll keep going) but its easy to forgot that the O2 sensor is only reporting what it's seeing and the default reaction of replacing the O2 sensor is literally just shooting the messenger. I know there wasnt a difference on my 02 SS. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada, spyderchat.com is an independent Toyota enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope Inc. A vehicles (bank 2, sensor 2) O2 sensor will be located behind or downstream of the catalytic converter on the bank which corresponds to the engines second cylinder. The difference in the amount of oxygen between that present in the outside air, and that present in the exhaust promotes the flow of oxygen ions and produces voltage. Could I buy universal one, if not why? Tally how many spark plug wires are present. Should I replace both oxygen sensors at the same time? Both pre-cat sensors are identical. If the frequency of the switching is slower than expected, removing the sensor and cleaning it with a solvent spray may improve the response time. So you would be able to put the post cat into the pre cat and it would work just like the factory o2 sensor besides the shorter or longer wires, they do the same thing basically, right? Required fields are marked *. The time taken for a good trace may vary between 30 seconds to 2 minutes. Their bodies are identical, so the threads. Downstream Sensor is in the Exhaust Pipe Post-Cat. Connect a diagnostic tool, such as Delphis DS, select the correct vehicle and read the fault code(s). O2 Oxygen Sensor Kit For Mazda CX-7 2006-2012 2.3 Turbo Petrol (both sensors) New . Most cars have at least two oxygen sensors located throughout the exhaust system; at least one in front of the catalytic converter and one or more downstream from the catalytic converter. The most commonly used sensor has a Zirconia element, producing a voltage when there is a difference in oxygen content between the two electrodes. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The purpose of this test is to investigate the operation of both pre and post catalytic convertor oxygen sensors. Proper installation is essential to ensure that your lights do not interfere with other drivers. Upstream Sensor is in the Exhaust Manifold Pre-Cat. Is the upstream and downstream O2 sensor the same? Check the condition of the probe element protective tube for signs of damage and contamination. This page could not be found. They reacts to the oxygen content in the exhaust system and produce a small voltage depending on the air/fuel mixture seen at the time. i.e. However I'll defer to your knowledge with working at Bosch. hi guys i got old 02 sensor out a Little tight getting new one in. Download manuals, brochures, posters, and training materials. This information is an example of our investigations and findings and is not a definitive procedure. Porsche Club Great Britain gives no warranties, guarantees or assurances and makes no representations or recommendations regarding any goods or services advertised on this site. You'll ruin sensors and have nothing to show for it. Now reconnect the diagnostic tool and delete any related fault codes. OEM numbers are obviously different. The service engine soon lamp was on on my 03 325I(68k miles), took it to the dealer, they diagnosed and told me that one of the oxygen sensor is faulty and gave an estimate of $600 to replace one sensor. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. 1. That's where my misconfusion came from. Are the sensors indeed the same functionally? Automotive diagnostic scopes and equipment. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. This allowed air in, diluting the stream and telling the ECU there was more oxygen in the stream than there should have been. carolinasbmwmoa.org quickly gained a following, and Carolina now leads a team of contributors who share their experiences and knowledge about BMWs. If you are boating from Kingston to Toronto, for example, you are heading upstream. are the pre cat and post cat 02 sensors the same? You never never never get anything done at the dealer, NEVERRRRRR. Each vehicle may be different and require unique test Information can be obtained from the operator or the white pages. 325 e, i have 03 bmw 330xi and bank 2 oxigen sensor wire got burn out touching the four wire, i split it them but now get code p0031,p0600,p0051,p0037 and p0057 can anyone tell me how to check the voltage on those wire or the wiring schematic. Way too much..an OEM O2 sensor is $120-150 from autohausaz.com. Then use a spanner or dedicated O2 socket wrench - to unscrew the sensor from its seating. This enables the sensor to be located further away from the heat source at the manifold to a 'cleaner' location. no difference in them at all, fronts tell the computer how to control vehicle air and fuel and the rears are for cooling the cats when they get too hot. The Waveform Library is a global database of waveforms uploaded by PicoScope users. Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members The pre catalytic converter signal transitions, from lean to rich or vice versa, take around 0.5 s. The post catalytic converter sensor signal. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. JavaScript is disabled. How do I know if its my upstream or downstream O2 sensor? There is no difference between the pre and post O2 sensors. read the wiki, all common air leask are there, hi y have 2 codes po155 heated oxygen sensor bank2 sensor 1 (ho2s21) sensor heater circuit and po135 heated oxygen sensor bank 1 sensor 1 (ho2s11) sensor heater some vary can tell me the locations on this sensor and part #s or were i can buy it cheap thanks. A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. Does it matter which 02 sensor goes where? Vehicle manufacturers identify bank1 vs. bank2 and front / rear vs. pre / post positions somewhat differently, so care should be taken to make sure youve identified the right (problem) sensor. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". Top wire: White heater (+) A typical Zirconia lambda sensor has four wires. Techincally all 4 O2 sensors are the same. OP is outside USA, so does not have wideband pre-cat O2 sensors. Are Bank 1 and Bank 2 O2 sensors the same? Contact information for direct sales and support queries, plus our network of global distributors. Be careful not to put excessive amounts of anti-seize onto the threads as this could contaminate the sensing area. Contact the seller. JavaScript is disabled. Directors of the Board of Porsche Club GB, Club Office Staff, Register Secretaries and Regional Organisers are often requested by Club members to provide information on matters connected with their cars and other matters referred to in the Club Rules. Downstream means towards where the flow ends, at the opposite end of the waterway from the source. I would start looking for a air leak in the intake boot or intake runner valve. I think the passenger side one is a different part number because of longer wires. This help topic is subject to changes without notification. 2012 BMW 328i (F30) 2.0L N20 - PRE / POST CAT O2 OXYGEN LAMBDA PROBE SENSOR SET . The difference in the amount of oxygen between that present in the outside air, and that present in the exhaust promotes the flow of oxygen ions and produces voltage. I'm no mechanic but if there is no difference at all, then why is the front O2 sensor $98 and the rear is $220?? The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, https://turbobricks.com/resources/O2sensors.pdf, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. The downstream oxygen sensor detects the change and informs the vehicles computer. please help. When the vehicle accelerates, the ECM allows overfuelling and ignores the lambda signals. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Most cars have at least two oxygen sensors located throughout the exhaust system; at least one in front of the catalytic converter and one or more downstream from the catalytic converter. Free shipping . If you decide to do this long term, you will experience problems. tuned with EFI Live. Upstream is before the Cat and downstream is after the cat. The Titania Oxygen sensor differs from the Zirconia sensor in that it is incapable of producing its own output voltage and is therefore reliant on a 5-volt supply from the vehicle's ECM. To protect against the sensor becoming welded into its threading, Delphi sensors come with anti-seize compounds either pre-applied or included in the box. Library of examples on how to perform tests when using PicoScope. I then tried a front universal and all was well. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. Bank 2 Sensor 1 is the first sensor closest to the engine. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. If you need assistance having this checked or repaired, a qualified pro from YourMechanic can come to your location to inspect the system and replace any O2 sensors that are faulty. Pre Cat and Post Cat O2 Sensors For Suzuki Swift Sport RS416 1.6L M13A M16A . Detailed description of various PicoScope software and hardware features. Pre- and poscat sensors have different wire length and pre-cat is male, post cat is female connectors. If you unplug the lambda sensor it will need to default to the fuel maps that its already calculated as being good. Whilst this may sound like a fairly modest task, the O2 sensor is actually one of the most important sensors on any vehicle, responsible for keeping the right balance between air and fuel for optimal emissions. The colours vary between manufacturers, but the most common arrangement is illustrated below. The support I have received from Pico over the years has been superb. How many miles do you have to drive to reset oxygen sensor? Your email address will not be published. On an oscilloscope, the resultant waveform should look as the illustration above. Because many late model vehicles have multiple oxygen sensors, be sure you correctly identify the bad sensor so you do not mistakenly replace the wrong one. Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions. Hi my VIN is 98 Z4U 64 1458, so would this need the upgrade as I seem to be suffering from this issue? This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. Definitely start with the sensors. 232/234 .595,.598 +2 comp cam with ported and polished stock heads with .650 lift dual springs and a bowl grind. Confirm the fault code by selecting live data and comparing the value of the suspect faulty sensor to that of a known working sensor. How do I know which oxygen sensor to replace? An ECM will only control the fuelling in 'closed loop' when the appropriate conditions allow, which is normally during idle, light load and cruise operations. with unbelievable performance for the money. The difference between the two is about $1,000.. If required, apply the compounds to the new sensor before re-fitting. Expecially since Pre-Cat is difficult to get at. Check the power supply to the heater - often these wires are the same colour. In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. Is a brake light and running light the same? The O2 sensor is part of the emissions system of your car that measures the proportion of oxygen in your engine. Check the O2 sensor is reading correctly by confirming the O2 value with a four, or five gas emission analyser. In turn, the computer activates the check engine light and logs code P0430. The POST-cat O2 sensors are the only ones effected. $80.43 . Come discuss mods, horsepower, engine specs and more! Switch on the oximeter and connect the applied probe to the oximeter. If you are going from Kingston to Cornwall, you are travelling downstream. Most oxygen sensors come with a special electrically conductive anti-seize compound applied to the threads, so its merely a matter of threading the new sensor into the void left by the old one. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. Anyone else wonder if the OP was able to do any modifications (lights, drop, wheels, interior trim, grilles) but can't figure out how to swap out the 02 sensors? TT (Mk1 . The sensor signal helps keep the mixture just right. Lambda sensors have an internal heater, so check the resistance of the heater it will usually be quite low. It's been a while since I've checked into thisso hopefully, someone can back me up. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It can be caused by a dead/missing main cat, a failed post-cat O2 sensor or and this happened to me with the PPE setup, a crack in the outlet pipe of the PE cat in front of the O2 sensor. Its job is to monitor the oxygen content exiting the catalytic converter in order to determine if it is operating efficiently. Since the oxygen sensor is in the exhaust stream, it can become contaminated. Carolina Stone is the founder and lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs. Once the sensor is in place, plug in the electronic connector. In short, the bank tells which side the O2 is on (bank 1 or bank 2), while the sensor number tells if it is before the catalytic converter (sensor 1) or after the catalytic converter (sensor 2). Why am I still getting a P0420 code after I replaced my catalytic converter? Come join the discussion about Bimmerfest events, production numbers, programming, performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! 27 sold . Our garage has checked leaks and wiring and this is what they have done. I was very impressed as to the speed and ease of ordering. As you drive your car the computer will monitor all the sensors and register the results. $71.24 . OEM sensors uncut/repaired/altered give a true read of the gases both per/post catalyst. You will see that, The pre catalytic converter sensor signal. sledhead. The information within is carefully checked and considered to be correct. You must use the correct ones, whether oem with the correct length cable and plug, or the correct universal equivalent, that will require you to measure and splice your old plug onto it. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. The lambda sensor is essentially two porous platinum electrodes. The pre-cat sensor regulates fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the catalytic converter. Our P2096 fault code problem has now been resolved. A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the engine, so that . Inspect the exhaust manifold and fuel injectors for leaks as well as the condition of the ignition components these may affect sensor operation. Once unscrewed, discard the old sensor and replace with the new unit. Finally, run the ignition and confirm that the check engine light is extinguished, then perform a road test. A switching voltage on the post-cat sensor indicates that the gases are passing across the catalytic converter's ceramic monolith without being subjected to chemical change and therefore the cat requires replacing with a known good unit, providing that the pre-cat waveform is within specification. Free shipping . Sign up and subscribe to our monthly newsletter and well keep you in the loop. As I understand it, the pre cat voltages should swing between around 0.2v - 0.8v per second (mine appear to do that just fine) and the post cat . . Our collection of training videos, articles, guides and information on training courses. Members are advised to consult qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at all times. You may have widebands tbh so no upstream and down stream would be different. In an effort to diagnose the faulty component I have been monitoring the pre and post cat O2 sensors using the graph displays on the Torque OBD2 app, but I need some help understanding the readings. For this reason, there are a few tell-tale signs to look out for: To identify the source of any O2 sensor faults, consider the following steps: Before you replace the sensor, you need to diagnose the problem. Disclaimer The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". We know that our PicoScope users are clever and creative and wed love to receive your ideas for improvement on this test. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. Thanks! We use cookies to optimize our website and our service. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. . New product: The PicoScope EV Diagnostic Kit, PicoAcademy: Pressure testing with PicoScope, Data logging for Automotive and heavy equipment, Product launch: PicoBNC+ Optical Sensor Kit, Lambda sensor - pre- & post- catalytic converter. . If this is your first visit, be sure to The voltage range, in most cases, varies between 0.2 and 0.8 volts: 0.2 volts indicates a lean mixture and 0.8 V shows a richer mixture. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Do universal sensors work, well yes. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. 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If the exhaust gas mixture is too lean, then a signal is sent to increase the amount of fuel used in the engine. 2,500 rpm engine speed. However, bank 1 has two sensors, of which sensor 1 is located near the engine before the catalytic converter, an upstream sensor called pre-CAT, and sensor 2 is located after the catalytic converter called post CAT, a downstream sensor. These can all affect the oxygen sensors response characteristics, resulting in an extended response time or a shift in the sensor voltage curve and in the long run reduced sensor performance. 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Oxygen molecules from the exhaust gas pass through tiny slots or holes in the sensors steel shell to reach the sensing element, or nernst cell. Depending on the engine design, vehicles can have multiple oxygen sensors, sometimes on both sides of the engine. Closing out this thread for the troubleshooting masses. So essentially bmw did a change to the DME which came with different sensors, the wide-band I mentioned, in 2003. Phase I=140whp Phase II=230whp Phase III=Cant tell the clutch pedal from the brake! We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. The tools used in this guided test may have been superseded and the products above are our latest versions used to diagnose the fault documented in this case study. If the exhaust gas mixture is too rich and there is too little oxygen in the exhaust, a signal is sent to the engines Electronic Control Unit (ECU) to decrease the amount of fuel added into the cylinder. On the other side of the nernst cell, oxygen from the air outside the exhaust travels down the O2 sensor and makes contact. Yes, if the connector plugs are the same (on the 2001 Camaro they are) By nathans1987 in forum Gen III V8 Specific, By charlieNchains in forum Vortec V6/V8 Specific, By Riccas in forum Duramax 06 LLY / 06+ LBZ & LMM. Even though both O2 sensors are four wire, heated O2 sensors, there are definitely differences that the Motronic can detect. I have two new original postcat sensors. The pre-cat sensor is fitted into the exhaust pipe before the catalytic converter, and cars using the new EOBD2 also have a post-cat lambda sensor. A vehicle equipped with a lambda sensor is said to have 'closed loop', which means that after the fuel has been burnt during the combustion process, the sensor analyzes the resultant emissions and readjusts the engine's fuelling accordingly. Not having ordered on the internet before i didnt struggle at all. Training resources and demonstrations on PicoScope and the Automotive Diagnostics Kit. Bank 2 Sensor 2 is the second sensor on the engine's exhaust pipe, usually behind the catalytic converter. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. So why is the light still on? ,t.c.bypass,descreened m.a.f. Reading the trouble codes will tell you exactly which sensor is in need of replacing either the upstream (top) or downstream (bottom) sensor and on what bank (side) of the engine. AU $309.99 + AU $45.00 postage . Whereas wide-band is 1V -5V, allowing for more detail when not at ideal operating conditions. When the oxygen sensor fails, the computer can no longer sense the air/fuel ratio, so it ends up guessing. Don't do it. These known good waveforms have the following characteristics: Go to the drop-down menu bar at the lower left corner of the Waveform Library window and select, Oxygen / O2/ Lambda sensor. Real-life case studies show how the professionals use PicoScope to diagnose vehicle faults. Correct, yes that's the one. On Bank 2 means it is at the engine side with cylinders 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. In most cases, a vehicle with an inefficient catalytic converter will continue to run just fine. We have good news! Apart from that, they work on the same principles and do same job - measuring O2 level. London Road, Moreton-in-Marsh A4 (B5 Platform) Discussion. The catalytic converter is where you will find the sensors. The technical storage or access is required to create user profiles to send advertising, or to track the user on a website or across several websites for similar marketing purposes. This is a TSB regarding the P2096 problem. check out the. Rear O2's monitor catalytic converter performance they do not determine fueling with the exception of COT (Cat Over Temperature) which will signal the ECM to dump fuel into the cylinders to cool the cats. This is due to the fact that bank 2 is representative of an engines #2 cylinder, while sensor 2 serves as a downstream designation. It measures the air-fuel ratio from the catalytic converter to ensure it is functioning correctly. Maybe try a search? Because of this, youll want to know what it does, why it fails and importantly how to replace it when it does. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. What is the difference between pre cat O2 sensor and Post car O2 sensor in term of sensor wise(not. All three O2 sensors are intechangeable. A switching voltage on the post-cat sensor indicates that the gases are passing across the catalytic converter's ceramic monolith without being subjected to chemical change and therefore the cat requires replacing with a known good unit, providing that the pre-cat waveform is within specification. Other than the connector, is there a difference? Neither Porsche Club GB, nor any of the aforementioned, shall be under any liability in respect of any such information, advice or assistance given to members. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. 2012 AUDI A6 (C7) 2.0L CAEB - PRE / POST CAT O2 OXYGEN LAMBDA PROBE SENSOR SET-2 . This allows measurement of a much wider air/fuel ratio. and 399 r.w.h.p. Titania is also used in the manufacture of another type of lambda sensor that offers a faster switching time than the more common Zirconia sensor. You just need to get one precat O2 sensor. AU $129.99 + AU $45.00 postage . Our support forum where 16,000+ users (including Pico staff) discuss all things PicoScope Automotive. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes. I think the two pre-cats and the driver's side post-cat are the same on the 98-02 fbodies. What's wrong with this picture? Where is the downstream oxygen sensor located? O2 sensors can typically be categorized as either a narrow band or wide band sensor. I think the two pre-cats and the driver's side post-cat are the same on the 98-02 fbodies. Tighten the sensor to the recommended torque. Inspect the electrical connector for damage or dirt. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. $89.05 . A constant high voltage output from the Zirconia shows that the engine is running constantly rich and is outside the ECM's adjusting range; whereas a low voltage indicates a lean or weak mixture. spyderchat.com is not in any way affiliated with Toyota Motor Corporation. It lets you see what you previously had to guess was happening. Narrowband = typical lambda/oxygen sensor.

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